I can't buy healthcare insurance

**DoingHomework** · Nov 24, 09, 8:56 am

Regarding healthcare - there is also a public health factor. If people are unhealthy they have teh potential to contract and then spread all sorts of diseases AND they will have higher health care costs that we all end up paying.

I do not think we should require companies to provide health insurance, but I am on the fence on that, but I do think that they should be required to give paid sick time. There is simply too much risk to the public in general in most companies/employers to have people coming to work sick.

There are a lot of issues to work out of course, and there will be people that abuse the system, but the reality is that companies operating in this country benefit from the public infrastructure (roads, hospitals, legal system, yada yada) and they have a responsibility to be good citizens by making it economically feasible for their workers to follow good public health practices and stay home when they are sick.

This is also why I am on the fence with requiring them to provide insurance. It is not a cost that I think businesses should pay on principal. But covering an employee in a good group plan costs about $6000 per year. I do not think it is crazy to think that in most cases a healthy employee can be at least this much more productive than an unhealthy one.

Businesses usually say if they had to do this they would hire fewer employees. That might be true but if they have XXX work to do they need a certain number of employees to perform the work. They might try to pay them less but then would be competing with other companies for employees. I think it would all work out.

That $6000 a year is about what businesses pay typical employees for unemployment insurance, social security etc.

**Floppster** · Nov 24, 09, 8:25 pm

I don't think that businesses should pay their employees health insurance unless they can easily afford it. Just tax the employee more based on their income. I know some right wingers will not like to hear that but that is my small minded German brain. I lived there long enough, I paid long enough in the system and the longest I had ever to wait to get a Doctor/Dentist Appointment was 2-3 days. Co-pay ?? 10 Euros every 3 month max ( no matter how many doctors you see in the 3 month ). Co-pay on drugs ?? Up to 5 euros per each drug (not for refills). Everything has his good and bad side. However I prefer to pay taxes and people are healthy. If you are sick just stay home till you are healthy. However on the other hand what I get after taxes looks way nicer than it would in Germany. There is always the good and the bad.

**DoingHomework** · Nov 25, 09, 8:12 am

Europe spends about 14% of GDP on healthcare while we spend 17%. So the system you are describing is cheaper as well!

I'm pretty much middle of the road politically. I think there are idiots on both sides and good ideas as well. But with healthcare these politicians have their heads up their @$$. If we made our system more efficient just a little by getting rid of waste and inefficiency we could easily afford to cover everyone in the country for free for what we are paying now.

I will agree with teh right wingers that if we had government agencies running healthcare the costs would go up and the quality would go down so I am not suggesting a socialized system run by the government. But surely there must be a way to have a private system that has economic incentives for being efficient rather than incentives for being more inefficient.

**Mogul of Pineapples** · 12:14 am

I agree with I think everything Floppster and DoingHomework has said, except for this...

if we had government agencies running healthcare the costs would go up and the quality would go down

Trust me, it may be smooth sailing with your health insurance right now (so I can totally understand why you feel this way) but if you ask the parent's of the 9 year old girl who was denied a liver transplant because they said it was "experimental" or my neighbor who died in the hospital because the insurance refused for weeks to re-attach the top of his skull which was temporarily removed to reduce brain swelling from his head being smashed on the steering wheel, then I think you would feel differently. The quality of our private health insurance now is absolutely sh*t. I think the government usually does a pretty bad job with most things, but I doubt they would try pulling these same scams in their public option.

**Mogul of Pineapples** · Nov 30, 09, 12:25 am

Also, the reason insurance companies pull off such bold scams is because they know they can't be held liable. In the 80's (or early nineties) a law was passed which makes it illegal to sue health insurance companies if your plan is provided through an employer. Therefore they will deny care left and right, even when it's obviously wrong to do so, because they can get away with it and they know a certain percentage of patients will either die shortly after or give up the fight and pay out of pocket.

**DoingHomework** · Nov 30, 09, 12:30 pm

It's hard to argue with what you are saying Mogul. I agree that we need to be able to hold insurance companies accountable by being able to sue them and they should not be able to deny care the way they do now. But I also don't think people should be able to chase fantasies and get treatments that have a very low chance of saving them. That kind of thing happens as well.

**fffresh** · Dec 2, 09, 4:04 pm

Companies only throw a fit about something if they know it will negatively impact their business. The reason they are in a tizzy is because they are well aware of their little games and are scared of the possibility of actually being held responsible and having competition (government) to answer to. If their service truly was great then they wouldn't be afraid of competing against old dysfunctional Uncle Sam.

**DoingHomework** · Dec 7, 09, 11:21 am

Originally Posted by fffresh

Companies only throw a fit about something if they know it will negatively impact their business. The reason they are in a tizzy is because they are well aware of their little games and are scared of the possibility of actually being held responsible and having competition (government) to answer to. If their service truly was great then they wouldn't be afraid of competing against old dysfunctional Uncle Sam.

You hit the nail on the head. There is no competition now. You buy the health care offered by your company or you go without. If you have nothing offered then you are SOL. Your company doesn't care how good teh service is, they want to pay the cheapest price.

**Cucumber** · Dec 7, 09, 6:18 pm

Originally Posted by DoingHomework

Your company doesn't care how good teh service is, they want to pay the cheapest price.

And that is so true lately!!!! They are giving out the sh*ttiest plans ever now. My mom has a $1750 deductible before her plan even pays anything!! She has a good job too.

There is going to be a tipping point eventually if this continues. People will only be f***ed over so much before they revolt. I'm not saying a protest on the streets that's useless but I do think people will just quit their jobs if they are working long hours for little pay or benefits.

**Floppster** · Dec 12, 09, 7:15 pm

Originally Posted by DoingHomework

It's hard to argue with what you are saying Mogul. I agree that we need to be able to hold insurance companies accountable by being able to sue them and they should not be able to deny care the way they do now. But I also don't think people should be able to chase fantasies and get treatments that have a very low chance of saving them. That kind of thing happens as well.

No suing BS. That will get us nowhere. Doctors have to pay crazy insurance rates because there are many sue happy pigs which think they need to sue the doctor because the doctor said the scar will go from the left to the right however the so called victim thinks it is going from the right to the left. Just stop the suing all together and not only your health insurance would go down but also your car insurance. Doctors will have to charge less since they don't have to be afraid of being sued left, right and center, therefore the insurance has to pay them less.

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